Washington Gov. Bob Ferguson visited Grays Harbor County Friday and met with government, community, business, and education leaders, and visited Hoquiam High School for a meet and greet and assembly with juniors and seniors. His last stop of the day? The Daily World in Aberdeen and an exclusive interview with the editorial board.

TDW: The Republicans are kind of happy because you’re not going to push to raise taxes, and the Democrats are a little upset with you. How does that work?

Gov. Ferguson: My suspicion is not every Republican is happy with me, and not every Democrat is unhappy with me. My view is when you can work in a bipartisan way, that’s what you should do. We’ve got some challenges as a state; it’s going to require all voices at the table to solve those. In terms of the budget itself, look, we’ve got a $15 billion shortfall for the next four years. I’m inheriting a pretty significant challenge. There’s not some $15 billion revenue source that’s going to tax right out of this thing. That’s not going to happen. We’ve been trying to propose what I think are, given the circumstances, as reasonable reductions as possible that do the least amount of harm. I understand that some of the folks in my party aren’t super excited about some of those, that’s just the way it works, we don’t have a choice, we have to balance the budget.

TDW: What you did with the ferries was smart, it was an interesting thing to push in Olympia.

Gov. Ferguson: The good news is it was a decision I could make. To me, that seemed logical, that just seemed practical. Ferry service is a big deal for a lot of communities across our state. When I campaigned for governor, I got an earful about it from many communities. The first vessel we’ve had to get the conversion was the Wenatchee, one of our largest vessels. It was supposed to take a year and $50 million, but it’s going to end up taking a couple of years and cost $86 million. It didn’t make sense to me with the World Cup coming up to take out another of our largest vessels to put in for that conversion. We are just going to delay that, and get our fleet back to pre-pandemic levels, and we’ve had a pretty positive response to that. I’m committed to transitioning to a clean energy economy, that’s gonna happen as a state. I think we have to do that in a way that’s mindful of the impacts on Washingtonians.

TDW: What’s an example of not pleasing everybody because you can’t?

Gov. Ferguson: Any of those decisions, proposing budget reductions, delaying a conversion of a ferry, but that just comes with the territory. I don’t especially worry about it. My job is to do what I think is the best thing for the state, given the circumstances we have. If we didn’t have a $15 billion budget shortfall, we wouldn’t be proposing those cuts, with some exceptions. There are some things we’re proposing that make sense no matter what. As an example, we were spending $4.5 million over the next biennium on a warehouse that we had back from COVID-19 days, and we needed to store things we didn’t need anymore. So, we’re canceling the lease. We should do that anyway. That’s just smart government. We have lots of other examples that are just what I’d consider smart government, good government. But others are more difficult. What we tried to focus on … we didn’t touch K-12 education, did not touch public safety. We just can’t expand certain programs right now, given the budget challenge. If we received one-time federal dollars during COVID, we might not be able to continue back-filling that with general fund dollars. I’m talking to everybody, doing the best we can to explain my perspective. We’ve got big problems to solve, and we gotta solve them.

TDW: With regard to the mosquito fleet act (Engrossed Substitute House Bill 1923) … we’d appreciate some support for that.

Gov. Ferguson: We do support it. Representative (Greg) Nance is proposing that, (we’re) working closely with Representative Nance on all things related to ferries, he supports my decisions on the conversion. It’s making progress. It got through the House with an overwhelming vote, and we’re 100% supportive of that. He’s been a strong ally when it comes to ferries.

TDW: We wanted to talk about fish culverts a little bit. There are costly ongoing projects. It seems like a lot of dollars for very few salmon.

Gov. Ferguson: When that litigation was going on, it preceded my time as AG, but I inherited that case, it was going on when I became attorney general. We were defending the state, our position was, in part, we shouldn’t have to be doing all these culverts because they weren’t going to make any difference for salmon. We lost in the 9th Circuit, I appealed that to the United States Supreme Court and lost a close decision. Right now, we have a ruling from a judge with a deadline of 2030 to get those fixed. Court orders are court orders. There is a mediation scheduled. Obviously, we’re participating in that. We’ll be going to that mediation working with tribes, and we’ll see where we land. We’re very mindful of the cost, especially now with the budget challenges.

TDW: Aren’t there a lot of municipalities and private landowners who have done a good job?

Gov. Ferguson: There are many governments that have their own culverts they haven’t repaired. We’re trying to do the most high-impact culverts first. The assistance for salmon is relatively small for the last (bit) we have to do, which is pretty pricey. The court did not say only prepare the culverts that make a difference for salmon, it was all of them. It’s only for the state, there are culverts where if we fix it, downstream there’s a blockage that we don’t control because it’s private property or local government, a lot has been written about that, the Seattle Times did a huge series I think even, we’re mindful, but we are doing a mediation, and we’ll be working with the tribes on that to see what we can work out.

TDW: The U.S. 12 rail separation project is huge, and the Port expansion is going to butt up against it timing-wise, the Port expansion will finish just as they’re starting to break ground on the U.S. 12 rail project. What’s your office’s take on all these infrastructure projects?

Gov. Ferguson: We’ve got a challenge with our budget, an operating budget challenge, transportation challenges, and challenges with the federal government. Is the federal government coming through with funding on fill-in-the-blank on whatever the issue is? We have challenges there. We have projects all across our state that are important. We’re going to be doing the best we can to continue with our commitment to fund the projects that we’ve been working on for some time. We’ve got another six weeks in the (legislative) session to go through that. That’s why we’re here, to hear from folks what’s important, what are their priorities, I’m getting first-hand information about it, it’s not just a line on a budget, it’s a project I’ve got some familiarity with because I’m meeting with folks in the community and have an awareness, and my team, who is there as well. I feel like we can work our way through it.

TDW: Regarding the Shoalwater and Quinault tribe relocations, the Shoalwater was in Washington, D.C., two weeks ago testifying … are those projects in danger of getting slowed down?

Gov. Ferguson: I think anything that involves the federal government, we’re monitoring closely. We just announced the Hoh River Road. The federal government wasn’t exactly moving quickly to do what they’ve done in the past, which is provide the $500,000 to $600,000 to repair the road when it’s washed out before. So, I stepped in, I have a fund I can access as governor to help the local economy and businesses, and just use that to get it done. We’re still hopeful we’ll get that money to pay the state back, but I thought, “We just can’t wait around, we gotta get that thing going by the summer.” I read a newspaper article about it; we’ve gotta solve that. I do a lot of backpacking and climbing, I know what that means for the local economy. I know where I spend my dollars, in communities all across the state, I’m gassing up, I’m getting my beers, I’m getting my lattes in the local communities like Forks, for example. I’m glad that one we could do. We’re mindful on the federal side of the impacts for the state on our budgets, for the tribes, fill-in-the-blank. That is something we monitor in real time. The state has litigation against the federal government on their withholding of federal funds, we’ve been successful so far on that, and we’re going to keep working on that litigation. The AG’s office is doing a good job, as usual, on that litigation. It’s an uncertain time when it comes to federal funding, There’s no way to sugarcoat it.

TDW: But it sounds like it’s going to get fixed before summer.

Gov. Ferguson: It’s my understanding from the locals in the community that every three or four years, the road washes out, so it’s not their first rodeo. They say once they’ve got the funding, the project itself takes three or four weeks, and they’ve got the workforce; they’ve done it before. It’s fair to say the local community was confident that it would be repaired in time for the summer season.

TDW: Obviously, the Trump administration and their actions are affecting everything.

Gov. Ferguson: There’s a lot of uncertainty. There are potential cuts to Medicaid, which is 70% of our Medicaid budget, or $13 billion, I think, comes from the federal government just to pick one example. We have a tough budget situation right now, which could turn dire if, for example, the federal government withheld funds for Medicaid. And certain communities, like this one, would be disproportionately affected by that as well.

TDW: How can the state of Washington mitigate some of these things?

Gov. Ferguson: The state is involved in litigation with some other states on the firing of all those federal employees, and we’ve been successful so far, we just got a favorable decision on that. We’re very involved in litigation, from birthright citizenship to the firing of federal officials, you name it, we’re very active in that, I don’t think the AG’s office has lost a case yet. We’re one of the leading states on those efforts on the legal side. If the president does something that we think is unlawful or unconstitutional that’s harming Washingtonians, we’re going to be there to see them in court and stand up for Washingtonians. Then you’ve got some things the administration could do that are harmful to Washingtonians but is not illegal. That’s case by case. The ability of a state to truly backfill cuts from the federal government, even under the best of circumstances, would be a challenge. I would say elections have consequences, they really do. We can make sure the administration is following the rule of law. We can do that. But no, we don’t have the ability to backfill if it turns out to be billions of dollars of cuts from the federal government. I think about 27% of our budget comes from federal dollars to give you a sense of scale. The proposed budget this year, I believe, is $86 to $87 billion. You can do the math on that.

TDW: What are the challenges in providing affordable housing in Washington state, especially in a community like Grays Harbor County?

Gov. Ferguson: We are not alone in this challenge. When I meet with governors, housing, housing, housing. Oh my gosh, yeah. It’s a big, big topic. That’s small consolation for any community that doesn’t have enough of it. I don’t think there are any easy answers. There’s no silver bullet that state X has done that’s magically going to change it overnight. There is a lot of focus on the need for more affordable housing with the state Legislature. There are multiple bills; there are a lot of proposals out there. Many of those bills are moving through the state Legislature. I think you will see multiple bills passed this session that address the shortage and the need for more affordable housing. Even with all those being adopted, I think that will help, it’s not going to solve the problem, so we’ll have to come back next year and keep at it, to be perfectly clear. A part of it, from my perspective, is the permitting side of it. It takes too damn long to get a permit, it does, it’s just a fact. We have to have a government that works best for the people; the whole point of government is to make your life a little better and not get in your way. That’s why I signed an executive order to all the agencies that deal with licenses or permits, “How can you cut in half the amount of time it takes to issue that license or permit for a whole range of things, including getting more housing constructed?” It can be done. That’s a priority.

TDW: With all the infrastructure projects, Grays Harbor County is going to see an influx of people, maybe temporarily, and housing will further be under the microscope.

Gov. Ferguson: I want to emphasize it’s under the microscope for me and my administration. I think I talked about it at length in my Inaugural Address, we need more housing, it’s the issue I heard the most going to all 39 counties. We’re just going to have to deliver on that.

TDW: How can your administration or government drive down the cost of living for Washingtonians?

Gov. Ferguson: The state is doing some things. There’s the Working Families Tax Credit, I just signed off on a letter that (goes with) checks to thousands and thousands of Washingtonians to help them out a little bit because times are tough right now, groceries cost too much, things are too expensive. I’m changing how we communicate that to the public. The Working Families Tax Credit is literally getting a check to working families at certain income levels. A check would just come in the mail. Hey, wait a second let’s have a letter from my office, here’s what this program is, here is why you’re getting this check, and here’s where a friend of yours you might think might qualify can get more information about it, but communicate what government is doing. There are some things we are doing. In my AG days, when it came to groceries, we filed a lawsuit on the merger of two of the largest grocery chains in Washington state that would have undoubtedly, in our view, raised prices. When you have less competition, one thing will happen — prices will go up. We took that lawsuit on, and we won. We’ve been pretty active on trying to do that. As a governor, much of this is totally beyond my control, as you know. Housing is a key one, make life more affordable, if your housing is sucking up a huge percentage of your income on your rent, that’s not good. That’s a challenge for Washingtonians, which gets back to the need for more affordable housing.

TDW: How much of it is about educating the public about the things you’re doing?

Gov. Ferguson: That’s always a challenge for government to communicate out what programs are available. I was at Hoquiam High School, the main mission is to communicate that Washington literally has, I think, the most generous financial assistance for kids from low-income families to attend higher education or get apprentice training for a trade where it’s all paid for. I think if you’re from a family of three, and your income is less than $66,000, your college education at your local community college or (University of Washington) is paid for, it’s not a loan, it is paid for. I think it includes books. You have to fill out this FAFSA form. Despite Washington having the most generous package available, we rank 48th out of 50 states in students completing the form. What the hell is going on? We’ve got a pretty tech-savvy state. I’m making it a mission. Let’s just get out and do what we can to communicate. I’m showing up at a school, I’m talking to the kids, and hopefully, a newspaper writes about it, do whatever we can to get the word out that this is available to people if they just fill out that form. It could unlock a career in the trades or higher education. It’s going to take a concerted effort to reach those students and their families. I’ve asked my team, “can I send a letter to every household of a high school student who might qualify and say, “hey, here’s this program, here’s where you go to fill out the form, here’s someone who can help you fill out the form.” I asked my team, “How can we better communicate this?” In the meantime, I’m just going to travel the state and show up at high schools and talk to students. There are things we can do to get the word out on this.

TDW: For you as a governor, for you as a father, how gratifying was it to go to Hoquiam High School and connect with those students?

Gov. Ferguson: It’s the best part of the job. As the governor, you’re dealing with really challenging issues, you’ve got a lot going on, and you’re trying to move the ball forward, sometimes you don’t always see the results. I feel fairly confident that I met some student there, I feel reasonably optimistic at least one student there is walking away thinking, “Maybe I need to check out that form, maybe I should fill out that form.” I like being around kids and students, I enjoyed it.

TDW: Past spending trends in Washington state, former Gov. Jay Inslee wasn’t that opposed to raising taxes, how hard is it with the federal situation and with the budget crunch, this is a horrible time to be the governor, isn’t it?

Gov. Ferguson: There’s an individual who has been a long-time Olympia observer for multiple decades, been around a long time. I ran into him in the hallways at the capital a couple of weeks ago, and he said, “Just want you to know in all my years following Olympia, no governor has inherited a bigger challenge than you have from day one.” The combination of the budget challenge and what’s going on in D.C. and how that could impact our state, and we’ve got all sorts of other things going on, but just those two things alone are pretty significant. That’s okay. It’s what I’m inheriting. I’m not spending a whole lot of time looking back. It is what it is. We just gotta try and solve these problems one day at a time. I’m optimistic we’ll get through it. There’s no easy way to balance a $15 billion shortfall, there’s no easy solution on that, so that alone is going to be challenge enough. We’re just going to do the best we can, we’re going to work through it. I feel good about where we are.